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bringing the web to video

There’s been a lot of discussion recently about the use of video on the web, especially around the

The workshop agenda for the W3C Video on the Web Workshop seems very telling to me. (Note, I was not there, so I am only looking at position statements.) The roster includes people from Disney, CBS Interactive, Sony, Nokia, Real Networks, Adobe, Turner, Samsung and many others. The position papers are worth a look because they really reflect the thinking of the various parties. Many of them come from the broadcasters – “How do I turn the web into a tv set?” (i.e. the Accenture paper or the one from Disney.) The Disney one is interesting because they at least understand the impact of what standards mean:

We believe that standardization of web-based video and related technologies will primarily benefit non-commercial producers and users of video. WDIG, like other commercial entertainment companies, is in the business of creating compelling online experiences, and our goals may at times conflict with the accessibility and openness that standards encourage.

This much is true. What’s interesting is how those from the content producing side of the house contrast with those who are actually in the business of giving people the tools to produce and publish their own content. (i.e. the Canon position paper.) And then there’s people like Adobe, who use it as an opportunity to tell people how awesome they think they are.

The web got where it is today by being radically open. I’m not talking about open source and I’m not talking about community-based development or even standards, really. I’m talking about the fact that every act of consumption on the web also creates an opportunity for creation. Every time you download a web page it’s easy to open up the source for the page, figure out how something works and then do it yourself. And it’s still trivial to find space on the web and post what you want. Anyone can stop being a consumer and start being a producer. That’s what radically open really means, and I have yet to find that kind of thinking on the video side of the house. Look at the papers above. They are all about technology or standards or advertising revenue models. But there’s little talk about the context for the discussion. What kind of web do you want to create? Because that’s what is at stake here.

I strongly believe that what we don’t need to do is to bring video to the web. What I really think we need to do is to bring the web to video. That spirit of openness that lets anyone build a new way to participate. The fantastic array of ubiquitous tools for the web that people can use to publish, create and consume is just staggering, and the web isn’t even that old. It’s just getting started.

That’s why the codec discussion is important. Making a mistake at the codec level and not choosing something (or creating something!) that lets people build around it and on top of it is to miss the main lesson from the last decade of the growth of the Open Web. The problem doesn’t seem to be willingness, exactly. Lots of us are willing to take those first steps to finding something that works well. I suspect that the problem is that those who apparently have to buy into the decision have so much to lose. (Even Mozilla, who is by industry standards is tiny, still has much to lose to submarine patents and lawsuits.)

I don’t think that the current producers of content matter as much in this discussion. They will continue to protect content using their own tools because anything that would allow the growth that I think we want to create wouldn’t be acceptable to them. And they still have Flash and other proprietary tools to fall back on if they wish. I think what we want to create is something that plays to the strengths of the web. Video as the web would have designed it.

Ogg Theora seems like a good place to start. Or maybe something like Dirac, a codec I keep hearing about. Given the things that make the web useful (search is an integral part of the web, indexing, re-using other people’s content, deep linking – tagging is not enough!) and given how much work has to be done to get “web video” really up to those standards we need something that can grow and change, much like how the original HTML implementations in Mosaic and Netscape grew into the web we have today. We have to be prepared for a long journey, but we have to be careful not to hamstring ourselves into something that limits our ability to improve what’s already out there.

This post ended up being longer than I intended. For those of you who made it this far, I apologize. But my point is this – that the context for the discussion about this particular issue is in many ways even more important than the discussion itself because it lays down the goals and the rules for the discussion. Being radically open, making baseline choices that allow for growth and change, that allow the creation of great tools by anyone and that create a wide ecosystem of people who will become invested over time seem like many of the key factors that will not just bring videos as they exist today to the web, but instead will change the way that we look at video. And that feels like the right goal. Creating change and improving the web.

  1. Duv’s avatar

    You know that is very interesting to read that coming from Disney, of all people.

  2. matp75’s avatar

    very interesting.

    I hope you will be able to ship some +theora support in Firefox 3, like it was initialy done for svg, at least in a disabled form activable via an about:config param so we can try it and people can test and adapt their site.
    It’s not very practicable at this time to have one firefox 3 beta on a side and special builds with video support on the other side. (or to have to build it’s own build)

  3. troll’s avatar

    I find it awful that those companies are doing the work for the next standards. It’s bound to be horrible on many levels. However “just going for” some open source codec for instance is not without problems. I do not know about Dirac (which is still in infancy) but at least the Theora’s quality is pretty horrible. It’s not visible on the ordinary post stamp sized fuzzy videos but when you attempt to use it for anything HD you will start noticing how much worse it is to the competition… It’s pretty much the worst if you pit it against what Apple or Microsoft can offer.

    And yes, the standards are made to last. It would be silly to make a web video standard that lasted only for a year or two. Couple years from now everything will be HD. It just is not possible with Theora.

  4. blizzard’s avatar

    “troll” indeed!

    Yes, it’s well known that Theora doesn’t have the same quality as some of the newer codecs (including the ones in HD!) As a friend of mine just pointed out, things like Dirac, which are under development, are targeted at HD-quality use cases.

    But there’s a lot of room in the market for various kinds of quality. Webcams aren’t going to produce HD quality video any time soon, nor do I think that the users of those webcams want everyone to see every pimple in their faces. :)

  5. John (J5) Palmieri’s avatar

    The quality issue was brought up in one of my entries and was pretty much debunked as a real concern. First the quality of current Theora encoding beats YouTube/Flash, the current dominate form of video on the web.

    True the old encoder sucked but Monty of Vorbis fame has been working on Theora 1.0. In his honest evaluation of the Theora codec which he posts here http://web.mit.edu/xiphmont/Public/theora/demo.html, Monty states …the current encoder is lacking compared to the very very best. It certainly is. Yet, the Theora format is entirely capable of closing with H.264 and MPEG-4 in terms of R-D while still requiring a fraction of the CPU time.

    In other words there is more work to be done but the Theora codec can be just as good in quality as H.264 and MPEG-4. In fact current code Monty is working with improves the quality quite a bit as most peoples perceptions come from the old first drops of code. As with anything in the world things take time to hit their stride. Theora is one of those and when Direc is available (estimates are about two more years) we will have two codecs which are open and redistributable unlike codecs based off of H.264 and MPEG-4.

  6. John (J5) Palmieri’s avatar

    Now to the real reason I am here. Blizzard, you talk about keeping the web ‘radically open’ because that is what made the web what it is today. I think those who want to ship ogg Theora and Vorbis have already bought into this but have not figured out how exactly to approach the issue. In other words there is no formula right now for those who wish to ship open content.

    You have been doing a great job in your blogs and it would be great to hear even more about Mozilla’s work in supporting Theora via the tag. Also perhaps getting a Mozilla engineer to whip up some examples of how to distribute Theora files for FF3 while also falling back to other methods (plugins, other formats, etc) for legacy browsers. Perhaps you could video blog this stuff with Ogg ;-)

    Thanks for the post. I always find them enlightening.

  7. blizzard’s avatar

    Chris Double has a pile of demos set up with a video-enabled build. I did a blog post that included links to some video demos and the work that Chris did. I’m not sure if we’re shipping video support in FF3 so I don’t want to make promises about that at this point.

    Also, the world does not need me video blogging. That would be a career mistake. :)

  8. Michael Kaply’s avatar

    Is there anyone doing research to GUARANTEE that these codecs are not encumbered by ANY intellectual property issues?

  9. John (J5) Palmieri’s avatar

    DISCLAIMER: From my understanding, I am not a lawyer:

    No one can guarantee codecs (or anything else) are free of intellectual property issues. To do so you would need to be sued by every IP holder and win in court since the courts are the only one who can decide that. That is one of the things that sucks about the patent system. You can have a patent lawyer check to see if your code tramples on any known patents but then there are always submarine patents and also patents which are totally unrelated but someone sues you anyway (and costs you money). This is not unique to any class of codec (remember the .gif debacle?).

    Xiph.org, the maintainers of of Theora have stated in their HTML5 position paper (http://www.xiph.org/press/2007/w3c/) that “Xiph knows of no infringing technology in Ogg. Tens of millions of copies have been deployed worldwide over the past ten years in a diverse array of software and hardware products from small .orgs like Wikimedia to giant commercial vendors such as Samsung and Microsoft. Ogg has triggered no litigation to date.”

    On the other hand MPEG-4 which requires a per seat license including another per seat license for the audio codec used has had claims leveled against it. I encourage you to go read the position paper as it is written much better that I could explain it.

  10. John (J5) Palmieri’s avatar

    The above disclaimer should read “This statement is from my understanding of the issues. As I am not a Lawyer please read it with a grain of salt and talk to a real Lawyer if you want a legally binding answer”

    See I actually know I am not a Lawyer ;-P

  11. Ken Crandall’s avatar

    Chris,

    In the spirit of being brief, I’ll preface my comments with a big “me too”. Personally, I think you hit the nail on the head — especially with the “bringing the web to video” vs “bringing video to the web” comparison. I think the same logic points to the problems with the membership of the consortium/working group/cabal/whatever in charge of creating the HTML5 spec. — their motivations.

    Projects that begin in an open manner often seem to grapple first with the questions around “how can we make this possible” and successful ones are able to focus on this purely from the standpoint of how to deliver functionality and features to consumers (users). The focus is on developing a viable technology.

    All you list have commercial motivations involved. It seems to be the internet equivalent of the “3rd-generation management curse” that open standards get perverted from “how can we make this possible” to “how can I create a protected revenue stream from this thing that people have glommed on to.” The focus is on creating revenue.

    This is an inevitable (and desired) behavior in capitalistic economies, but if the focus is TOO MUCH on protecting the assets/content/revenue stream of the providers, and TOO LITTLE on the user experience of those meant to consume it, then it will fail, for both groups.

  12. Ronald S. Bultje’s avatar

    J5: you’re comparing an alpha of a hypothetical future Theora release (“… that Monty has been working on …”) with … – anyway, you get the point. Just stop doing that. On our computers, Theora sucks. If you can fix that, great! We’ll gladly await with high hopes, and I’m sure we’ll not be disappointed. Until then, however, Theora sucks.

    I think Chris really gets it. Good blog post, enlightening on some levels.