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	<title>Comments on: comcast says no to competing video services and imposes bandwidth caps</title>
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	<link>http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/08/comcast-says-no-to-competing-video-services-and-imposes-bandwidth-caps/</link>
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		<title>By: gasman</title>
		<link>http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/08/comcast-says-no-to-competing-video-services-and-imposes-bandwidth-caps/comment-page-1/#comment-159283</link>
		<dc:creator>gasman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 19:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=658#comment-159283</guid>
		<description>Comcast Sues FCC For Right To Limit Bandwidth Hogs
Michael Learmonth &#124; September 4, 2008 6:20 PM 
Comcast (CMCSA) is challenging an FCC ruling that blocked the company from slowing down Web traffic from peer-to-peer fille sharing applications such as BitTorrent.

The FCC voted 3-2 in early August that treating certain types of Web traffic differently violated its &quot;net neutrality&quot; principles, which state that all Internet traffic should be treated equally.

Comcast says while it will comply, it is still appealing the order &quot;to protect our legal rights and to challenge the basis on which the [FCC] found that Comcast violated federal policy in the absence of pre-existing legally enforceable standards,&quot; EVP David L. Cohen said, in a statement.

FCC chairman Kevin Martin told Bloomberg he&#039;s &quot;disappointed&quot; by the challenge, and that &quot;it was important for the commission to continue to protect consumers&#039; unfettered access to the Internet.&quot;

Even before the FCC&#039;s ruling, Comcast announced a different strategy to keep the most prolific consumers of bandwidth from overburdening their network: It will slow down users based on how much bandwidth they&#039;re using -- not based on what software they&#039;re using. And as of Oct. 1, the company will impose a cap of 250 gigabytes a month for residential customers, a move that could affect about 1% of Comcast&#039;s 14.1 million broadband subscribers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comcast Sues FCC For Right To Limit Bandwidth Hogs<br />
Michael Learmonth | September 4, 2008 6:20 PM<br />
Comcast (CMCSA) is challenging an FCC ruling that blocked the company from slowing down Web traffic from peer-to-peer fille sharing applications such as BitTorrent.</p>
<p>The FCC voted 3-2 in early August that treating certain types of Web traffic differently violated its &#8220;net neutrality&#8221; principles, which state that all Internet traffic should be treated equally.</p>
<p>Comcast says while it will comply, it is still appealing the order &#8220;to protect our legal rights and to challenge the basis on which the [FCC] found that Comcast violated federal policy in the absence of pre-existing legally enforceable standards,&#8221; EVP David L. Cohen said, in a statement.</p>
<p>FCC chairman Kevin Martin told Bloomberg he&#8217;s &#8220;disappointed&#8221; by the challenge, and that &#8220;it was important for the commission to continue to protect consumers&#8217; unfettered access to the Internet.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even before the FCC&#8217;s ruling, Comcast announced a different strategy to keep the most prolific consumers of bandwidth from overburdening their network: It will slow down users based on how much bandwidth they&#8217;re using &#8212; not based on what software they&#8217;re using. And as of Oct. 1, the company will impose a cap of 250 gigabytes a month for residential customers, a move that could affect about 1% of Comcast&#8217;s 14.1 million broadband subscribers.</p>
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		<title>By: naplsinMD</title>
		<link>http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/08/comcast-says-no-to-competing-video-services-and-imposes-bandwidth-caps/comment-page-1/#comment-158859</link>
		<dc:creator>naplsinMD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=658#comment-158859</guid>
		<description>The point that is grossly overlooked is that Comcast sells their service based on several tiers of MEGABITS PER SECOND.  You can buy a 5mbps plan, or upgrade to 12 or 16 mbps plans.

They don&#039;t market that you can only use #mbps X seconds per month.  So if they sell me a plan for 16mbps without adequately disclosing limits, they are practicing a bait and switch technique.  Lure the customer in with an attractive marketing offer, then sell them something they did not expect.

Also, they do not provide any good metering, management, or QOS tools.  It doesn&#039;t matter what the limit is, whether it&#039;s a fair and reasonable limit, if they impose limits on households (and in mine I have 7 machines in use for the family), then they need to provide useful tools for the ordinary consumer.  

As a network engineer, I know how to effectively manage my household bandwidth use, and my kids are throttled so they don&#039;t impact my Vonage service, and Vonage is set on my router as high priority traffic with QOS settings.

We use hulu, joost, amazon VOD, slingbox, PS3 online, gametap, and are certainly on the high end of capacity usage (and this cap would actually not even impact me TODAY).  But I use Verizon FIOS and only purchased a 2/5 plan.  Even with all those services and up to seven concurrent users, 2/5 is enough for me, my wife, and kids.

BUT, Comcast&#039;s marketing will fool the average consumer.  Go ahead Comcast, and sell a product with bandwidth limits, but don&#039;t market something entirely different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point that is grossly overlooked is that Comcast sells their service based on several tiers of MEGABITS PER SECOND.  You can buy a 5mbps plan, or upgrade to 12 or 16 mbps plans.</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t market that you can only use #mbps X seconds per month.  So if they sell me a plan for 16mbps without adequately disclosing limits, they are practicing a bait and switch technique.  Lure the customer in with an attractive marketing offer, then sell them something they did not expect.</p>
<p>Also, they do not provide any good metering, management, or QOS tools.  It doesn&#8217;t matter what the limit is, whether it&#8217;s a fair and reasonable limit, if they impose limits on households (and in mine I have 7 machines in use for the family), then they need to provide useful tools for the ordinary consumer.  </p>
<p>As a network engineer, I know how to effectively manage my household bandwidth use, and my kids are throttled so they don&#8217;t impact my Vonage service, and Vonage is set on my router as high priority traffic with QOS settings.</p>
<p>We use hulu, joost, amazon VOD, slingbox, PS3 online, gametap, and are certainly on the high end of capacity usage (and this cap would actually not even impact me TODAY).  But I use Verizon FIOS and only purchased a 2/5 plan.  Even with all those services and up to seven concurrent users, 2/5 is enough for me, my wife, and kids.</p>
<p>BUT, Comcast&#8217;s marketing will fool the average consumer.  Go ahead Comcast, and sell a product with bandwidth limits, but don&#8217;t market something entirely different.</p>
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		<title>By: Gijs</title>
		<link>http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/08/comcast-says-no-to-competing-video-services-and-imposes-bandwidth-caps/comment-page-1/#comment-154305</link>
		<dc:creator>Gijs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 08:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=658#comment-154305</guid>
		<description>For my minor thesis at uni, I collected 811 YouTube videos (.flv files) in a regular pattern for a week, using the &quot;new videos&quot; feed they publish (I can get you the statistics of how I got them if you&#039;re interested, but leaving that out for now). Their total size is 4.08 GB, which boils down to about 5.15MB a video, on average. The largest is 25MB, the smallest 1kb. According to google that makes for 49693 YouTube videos a month. These are the &quot;normal&quot; quality ones, though. The high-quality ones that they started with a few months ago now will undoubtedly use (much) more bandwidth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For my minor thesis at uni, I collected 811 YouTube videos (.flv files) in a regular pattern for a week, using the &#8220;new videos&#8221; feed they publish (I can get you the statistics of how I got them if you&#8217;re interested, but leaving that out for now). Their total size is 4.08 GB, which boils down to about 5.15MB a video, on average. The largest is 25MB, the smallest 1kb. According to google that makes for 49693 YouTube videos a month. These are the &#8220;normal&#8221; quality ones, though. The high-quality ones that they started with a few months ago now will undoubtedly use (much) more bandwidth.</p>
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		<title>By: The Licquia Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Internet Speed Hype</title>
		<link>http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/08/comcast-says-no-to-competing-video-services-and-imposes-bandwidth-caps/comment-page-1/#comment-153214</link>
		<dc:creator>The Licquia Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Internet Speed Hype</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=658#comment-153214</guid>
		<description>[...] don&#8217;t tell Chris Blizzard&#8217;s commenters.  He writes about Comcast&#8217;s annoucement of a 250GB/month bandwidth cap, and gets an earful from commenters from Canada and Europe: A boo hoo hoo. Major Canadian ISPs have [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] don&#8217;t tell Chris Blizzard&#8217;s commenters.  He writes about Comcast&#8217;s annoucement of a 250GB/month bandwidth cap, and gets an earful from commenters from Canada and Europe: A boo hoo hoo. Major Canadian ISPs have [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dolphinling</title>
		<link>http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/08/comcast-says-no-to-competing-video-services-and-imposes-bandwidth-caps/comment-page-1/#comment-153108</link>
		<dc:creator>dolphinling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 03:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=658#comment-153108</guid>
		<description>Why do people think non-heavy users are subsidizing heavy users? Non-heavy users care about--and pay for--speed. They&#039;ll pay what it costs to get youtube to stream without pauses, to get pages to load faster, and be happy. And since the speed bottlenecks are still in the last mile, heavy users won&#039;t be affecting light users (except with cable), so the light users couldn&#039;t get the speed they get for less money anyway.

Myself, I&#039;m happy with Sovernet: 2Mb down / 256 Kb up for $37/month with no cap. I wish I could get Burlington Telecom (3Mb/3Mb for $33 through municipal data lines, yay local government!) but I live one town away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do people think non-heavy users are subsidizing heavy users? Non-heavy users care about&#8211;and pay for&#8211;speed. They&#8217;ll pay what it costs to get youtube to stream without pauses, to get pages to load faster, and be happy. And since the speed bottlenecks are still in the last mile, heavy users won&#8217;t be affecting light users (except with cable), so the light users couldn&#8217;t get the speed they get for less money anyway.</p>
<p>Myself, I&#8217;m happy with Sovernet: 2Mb down / 256 Kb up for $37/month with no cap. I wish I could get Burlington Telecom (3Mb/3Mb for $33 through municipal data lines, yay local government!) but I live one town away.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Drain</title>
		<link>http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/08/comcast-says-no-to-competing-video-services-and-imposes-bandwidth-caps/comment-page-1/#comment-152997</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Drain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=658#comment-152997</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it&#039;s &#039;that’s a huge pile of angry non-americans&#039; any more that it is &#039;the rest of us, would like to welcome you, the americans -- to needing to put up with what the rest of the world deals with on a daily basis&#039; or, consumerism.

For what it&#039;s worth, I don&#039;t know one 2.4 children &#039;average&#039; household in Australia, New Zealand or the Eire that would even know what to do with 250GB a month, but I do know that a hell of a lot of them shell out each month for Cable or Satellite TV -- somewhat independantly of their net access.

... and with the PS3, XBox360 and other &#039;media streaming&#039; devices (ie. those that the technicially challenged can build or acquire) lagging behind in their support of most formats from the web anyway, if they&#039;re not using it for TV, not finding pr0n 24/7 and not using fifteen gaming consoles at once -- what would they need it for?

It just sounds like american&#039;s are experiencing the &#039;we built the links, everyone came, now we profit&#039; mentality that shareholder concerned Telco&#039;s/ISPs the world over are driven by, that&#039;s all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s &#8216;that’s a huge pile of angry non-americans&#8217; any more that it is &#8216;the rest of us, would like to welcome you, the americans &#8212; to needing to put up with what the rest of the world deals with on a daily basis&#8217; or, consumerism.</p>
<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I don&#8217;t know one 2.4 children &#8216;average&#8217; household in Australia, New Zealand or the Eire that would even know what to do with 250GB a month, but I do know that a hell of a lot of them shell out each month for Cable or Satellite TV &#8212; somewhat independantly of their net access.</p>
<p>&#8230; and with the PS3, XBox360 and other &#8216;media streaming&#8217; devices (ie. those that the technicially challenged can build or acquire) lagging behind in their support of most formats from the web anyway, if they&#8217;re not using it for TV, not finding pr0n 24/7 and not using fifteen gaming consoles at once &#8212; what would they need it for?</p>
<p>It just sounds like american&#8217;s are experiencing the &#8216;we built the links, everyone came, now we profit&#8217; mentality that shareholder concerned Telco&#8217;s/ISPs the world over are driven by, that&#8217;s all.</p>
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		<title>By: Dorus</title>
		<link>http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/08/comcast-says-no-to-competing-video-services-and-imposes-bandwidth-caps/comment-page-1/#comment-152993</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=658#comment-152993</guid>
		<description>I must agree that at the moment, a 250GiB limit is nothing to worry about. However, 250GiB basicly means you have a constant 100kiB line, compared to the 20MiB lines that are sold these days, that&#039;s nothing. And in DVD&#039;s, you can download 53 of them a month, in Blu-ray disk&#039;s, it&#039;s just 10 of them.

The problem with bandwidth caps is not really the limit, more that most ISP&#039;s do not increase it enough over time. While the need for bandwidth grows faster. Most ISP&#039;s tend to go for more profit instead of better service. Trough healthy competition could take care of that. I&#039;ve always found it striking that in countries with little competition on internet connections have bandwidth caps. Also. you can claim that letting small users pay for the heavy use of others is not totally true. Simply maintaining the network cost a lot, independent from how much the network is used. Also, measuring bandwidth in the first place (especially deep packet inspection) is not only difficult, but also costly. Not to mention completely useless with a fair use policy.

However, if you allow a bandwidth cap, all high bandwidth users will move to competing ISP&#039;s, effectively driving up there bandwidth cost, and force them to start bandwidth measurement and caps as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must agree that at the moment, a 250GiB limit is nothing to worry about. However, 250GiB basicly means you have a constant 100kiB line, compared to the 20MiB lines that are sold these days, that&#8217;s nothing. And in DVD&#8217;s, you can download 53 of them a month, in Blu-ray disk&#8217;s, it&#8217;s just 10 of them.</p>
<p>The problem with bandwidth caps is not really the limit, more that most ISP&#8217;s do not increase it enough over time. While the need for bandwidth grows faster. Most ISP&#8217;s tend to go for more profit instead of better service. Trough healthy competition could take care of that. I&#8217;ve always found it striking that in countries with little competition on internet connections have bandwidth caps. Also. you can claim that letting small users pay for the heavy use of others is not totally true. Simply maintaining the network cost a lot, independent from how much the network is used. Also, measuring bandwidth in the first place (especially deep packet inspection) is not only difficult, but also costly. Not to mention completely useless with a fair use policy.</p>
<p>However, if you allow a bandwidth cap, all high bandwidth users will move to competing ISP&#8217;s, effectively driving up there bandwidth cost, and force them to start bandwidth measurement and caps as well.</p>
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		<title>By: WTF??? Concast is imposing download limits &#171; I&#8217;m Just an Avatar</title>
		<link>http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/08/comcast-says-no-to-competing-video-services-and-imposes-bandwidth-caps/comment-page-1/#comment-152963</link>
		<dc:creator>WTF??? Concast is imposing download limits &#171; I&#8217;m Just an Avatar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=658#comment-152963</guid>
		<description>[...] down for throttling back users who downloaded from torrents. The company has decided that it will place an overall 250GB/month download limit on its customers rather than limiting any one type of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] down for throttling back users who downloaded from torrents. The company has decided that it will place an overall 250GB/month download limit on its customers rather than limiting any one type of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/08/comcast-says-no-to-competing-video-services-and-imposes-bandwidth-caps/comment-page-1/#comment-152932</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=658#comment-152932</guid>
		<description>250gig is an enormous amount of data for a home user. Attempting to measure it in &quot;You Tube videos&quot; is silly. You could probably watch You Tube videos 24/7 and stay within that cap.

Quick calculations suggest you could download ~525 hours of reasonable quality divx video (over 22 continuous days of viewing).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>250gig is an enormous amount of data for a home user. Attempting to measure it in &#8220;You Tube videos&#8221; is silly. You could probably watch You Tube videos 24/7 and stay within that cap.</p>
<p>Quick calculations suggest you could download ~525 hours of reasonable quality divx video (over 22 continuous days of viewing).</p>
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		<title>By: drago01</title>
		<link>http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/08/comcast-says-no-to-competing-video-services-and-imposes-bandwidth-caps/comment-page-1/#comment-152928</link>
		<dc:creator>drago01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=658#comment-152928</guid>
		<description>There is no such thing as unlimited, because you are speed capped anyway, so you can calculate how much you can down/up load with your connection.
I am paying 35€ for an &quot;unlimited&quot; Fair-use service, but still complaining about 250GB sounds like &quot;its worse than before so I complain even thought I never downloaded 250GB/month before&quot;. Actually very few people will hit this limit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no such thing as unlimited, because you are speed capped anyway, so you can calculate how much you can down/up load with your connection.<br />
I am paying 35€ for an &#8220;unlimited&#8221; Fair-use service, but still complaining about 250GB sounds like &#8220;its worse than before so I complain even thought I never downloaded 250GB/month before&#8221;. Actually very few people will hit this limit.</p>
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